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30 April 2010 @ 03:33 pm
sunday question 4  
(Inspired by [info]dergerm comment about: that one episode of Buffy with the invisible girl that, at the end, they dramatically led us to believe there was this army of invisible people. Whatever happened to that? That would've been an interesting thing to pick up again in the Initiative, or something. But, nope, just let it fall by the way-side.)

On all the shows (Buffy, Angel, Firefly, Dollhouse) there are often plotlines or potential plotlines which were for whatever reason (actors leaving, time/money, cancellation etc) never explored.

Which plotlines, or potential plotlines, do you wish had been explored or given more airtime? And Why?

(Obviously, Angel, Firefly and Dollhouse were all cancelled but what I want to know is what storylines in particular you wish could have been given airtime)

Your Mods,

Tabi and Pam.

Callieclockworkcallie on April 30th, 2010 03:25 pm (UTC)
The whole "Inara DYING" thing would have been nice figure out.

Also for more Illyria in Angel. We're learning tons about her in the comics, but it's just not the same.
aliciadort on April 30th, 2010 03:49 pm (UTC)
I thought the point of the invisible girl being picked up by the government was that we didn't know what happened there. I personally prefer it when plots like that get 'dropped', although personally I believe it was completely intended that she'd never be mentioned again. The point, surely, is that we have no idea what happened after that -- like an open-ended and ambiguous horror film ending.

I agree with the_insane_vamp, though, I would have liked to see more about Illyria... but I guess that's probably what they would have done if Angel had carried on. I wanted to know more about her past and how she was integrating into modern human society.

I wanted to see a lot more about the Initiative, too. It just seemed like it was "oh this is a big demon-fighting/studying organisation btw, and now it's going to fall". How old was it? If it had been done better it could have been like a semi-Wolfram & Hart, which I think was done very well. I wanted to see more of the scientific ways of dealing with demons vrs. the traditional way, too, I thought that was interesting. :/

Now that I think about it, I think Faith could have been explored more on the main show. I liked seeing her on Angel, but I still feel like she was underused on Buffy after S3, and her sudden arrival back in Sunnydale for S7 was rather unnecessary at best if they weren't going to give her any more development. The same goes for the new slayers -- I haven't read the S8 comics, and I suppose it was nice for the ending of S7 to be ambiguous, a new beginning, but I wanted to see more about how all the new slayers were dealing with things as it seemed rather handwaved.

And most importantly... the First Slayer. Rather than "a load of random men did it way back", I wanted to know more about how slayers came about.
sweet_breadsweet_bread on May 1st, 2010 11:36 am (UTC)
"The point, surely, is that we have no idea what happened after that -- like an open-ended and ambiguous horror film ending."

I tried to explain this idea last week, when the eggs laid by the praymantis teacher came up. It's comparble to the last scene in Carrie, when Carrie's arm comes out of the rubble at the end. There will be no sequel. It's a nod to classic horror and that's all.

CrevanFox: slayercrevanfox on April 30th, 2010 03:57 pm (UTC)
what was the Cheeseman about? He existed in all their dreams, was he a part of the groups collective unconscious, the First Slayers BFF, what?
me_maneuver: Buffy - Foamyme_maneuver on April 30th, 2010 06:57 pm (UTC)
Ha. That is what I was going to ask. :)
(Deleted comment)
CrevanFox: slayercrevanfox on April 30th, 2010 10:29 pm (UTC)
I've seen some pretty impressive meta about what he represented to each character, which, of course, I cant find right now.

I still like to think he was the First Slayers drinking buddy.
penny_lane_42 on May 1st, 2010 03:57 pm (UTC)
I believe Joss has said that he needed one thing in the dreams that meant absolutely nothing. That was there to be absurd and not make any sense, just like most real dreams. The Cheese Man is that guy. So I'm sure you could come up with some theories about what he symbolizes, but that would be all from the viewer's perspective, not the author's intent.

Of course, the Author Is Dead, so that's okay.
CrevanFox: slayercrevanfox on May 1st, 2010 06:30 pm (UTC)
Joss also said bring your own subtext. Given my insistence he was the First Slayers drinking buddy I may have a drinking problem, or my friends do.
penny_lane_42 on May 1st, 2010 06:37 pm (UTC)

That was awesome.
aliciadort on May 1st, 2010 02:13 pm (UTC)
But the point was that we don't know who he is. Anyone seriously wondering about what he was is seriously missing the point, Joss just included him to show that not everything has symbolism and sometimes dreams just don't make any sense. :P
Danielle: dawn + buffy - hugs!deternot on April 30th, 2010 05:32 pm (UTC)
Tons of stuff on Dollhouse, obviously. They had to squish it all in. Specifically I would have wanted to have a clearer season 2 story arc for Whiskey, learn more about what happened to Dominic post-E1, um... lots of stuff. Almost every episode in the second part of season two could have been it's on mini-arc, easily.

On Buffy, and I am probably alone in this, I wish we could have had more about Dawn and the Key. I wish we could have learned more about the Key and whether Dawn had any other abilities because of it/other people trying to get it to use it in other ways. I also wish that we could have seen more of Buffy training her in season 7 instead of a few episodes and then Buffy focusing on the potentials.

On Angel, I wish Illyria had gotten more time :)

On Firefly, the obvious questions: Book, Inara, etc. Also, in a few episodes they hinted about Zoe and Wash thinking about having kids. That could potentially be interesting. Maybe not a specific pregnancy-kid plot, but them talking more about their future.
penny_lane_42 on May 1st, 2010 03:59 pm (UTC)
You are not alone about Dawn and the Key. I always wanted more Dawn on her own terms (as we saw her in S7), and the Key could go so many places.

I also would have loved to see more Wash/Zoe/baby talk. Mostly because I always want more Wash/Zoe.
Staringiscaringstaringiscaring on May 7th, 2010 07:25 am (UTC)
Yeah, I thought the key stuff could have been so interesting as Dawn could have learned to harness her ability for dimensional travel. Dawn turned out so chill in season seven that its a shame that Joss & co. made MT play the bratty kid sister for two seasons.
gillo: Alasgillo on April 30th, 2010 05:43 pm (UTC)
I would have liked to see a developing relationship between Faith and Wood - not just sex but Faith learning to like and trust a man as a person, not a sex object. And more Clem would have been good, because Clem always brightens my day up.

Most of all, though, I feel cheated of S6 of Angel, with Spike still there and Illyria interacting with them all and Gunn a vampire. So much we could have had if it weren't for bloody WB.
K: [vd] vampires burn in the sun!hjordis on April 30th, 2010 06:12 pm (UTC)
I read once that Jesse from the pilot was originally intended to be a recurring role after he gets vamped. I'm not sure what they were planning on doing with him, but I could see him as an Angelus-lite, taunting his old friends. I think a storyline like that could have really tied together the first season, and shown the audience what it's like to be turned into a vampire. There seems to be some variation between how new vampires handle the demon within (Angelus embracing it immediately vs. Spike growing into a Slayer-killer), and it would've been nice to see that in real time.
(Deleted comment)
sweet_breadsweet_bread on April 30th, 2010 09:20 pm (UTC)
THe guy who played Doyle died in real life of a drug overdose, shortly after he was fired from the show.
Renée: Dollhouse. Victor/Sierra.rogueslayer452 on April 30th, 2010 08:23 pm (UTC)
From Firefly I definitely think the exploration of Inara's impending death along with Book's backstory would have been nice to see or at least more fleshed out. Surely, the mystery of Book's past has been something that many have speculated from the series and even the movie, but there should definitely have been more about that. Same with Inara since in the two-hour pilot she had that syringe and there was some minor hints here and there, but we never got anything from that. I would have also said more about the Blue Hands men, but that was covered in the graphic novels, so.

There's a lot that could have been explored with Dollhouse, like tons of things. Everything that connected Boyd to everything and how all that worked, the fusion of Caroline and Echo, how Echo evolved from being in doll-state to completely self-aware and able to control all her personalities, all of what happened between "The Hollow Man" and "Epitaph Two", etc. I love the show, but there really wasn't much development on certain things that should have been focused on, the majority of it I know Joss wanted to get to but FOX, again, intervened.
(Deleted comment)
Renée: Firefly. Big Damn Heroes.rogueslayer452 on April 30th, 2010 09:40 pm (UTC)
Morena Baccarin revealed it at the DC Stargate Panel, or at least confirmed what someone else heard from Joss whether or not Inara was dying.
Liliaethliliaeth on May 1st, 2010 12:25 pm (UTC)
I'd have to go with Spike's soul. I wish they'd spent more time on his quest to regain his soul, and later on, that we had more reactions to this from the scoobies and especially Giles. I was really really disappointed that Giles never seemed to even pay any notice to the fact that a vampire voluntarily chose to regain his soul.

I've always felt that if what Spike did was supposed to be so 'normal', or 'everyday' that it's not worth paying attention to, then it makes Angel look incredibly bad in comparison, since he's never even bothered to try and find a way to secure his soul, let out try and get it back once his curse is lifted.

The only way to not make Angel look bad, is by showing exactly why what Spike did, was so extraordinary.
(Deleted comment)
Liliaethliliaeth on May 1st, 2010 02:41 pm (UTC)
Not saying they should be nice to him. Though it would have been nice if they had been. But just... pay some attention to it.

I'm not saying that Spike was suddenly a different person because of the soul. I've never believed in the Angelus/Angel separation either. But the fact that Spike was able to make that choice, should have at least gotten them to think about other vampires and their abilities to choose and how that would impact on the scoobies tendency to stake any vampire they met.

Now personally, I think they're in a war and have every right to defend themselves, but it would have been nice to have them behave like heroes and actually at least think beyond what they've been told about vampires and demons. It would have developed them as characters, which is always a good thing to do, especially whenever it takes a char out of the black and white perspective.
aliciadort on May 1st, 2010 02:17 pm (UTC)
I definitely agree with this, it seemed like such a cop-out. We've had so much of Angel being established as "the only vampire with a soul" and how it's so amazing and hard for him to deal with, and then Spike gets one, even choosing to get one for himself and it's just commonplace. At least it was somewhat covered in Angel, but really, S7 Buffy was just silly in this regard.

I wanted to see more of the other characters' opinions and reactions, and I would have really liked to see some more Giles and Spike interaction. You're right, Giles would be really interested in the idea of another vampire with a soul. Plus it's pretty unprecedented that there would be a vampire that chooses to get one himself. I'm perfectly fine with the idea as I always found Spike and his choices fascinating, but it would have been nice to have it explained a bit more.

...then again, I was always under the impression that Spike didn't decide to get a soul, and in fact went off to get the chip out of his head. To me it seemed very ambiguous and that was my initial assumption, but lately I've decided to just go with the flow and accept that he probably went to get a soul. :( Like I said, it just wasn't covered enough or explained at all for me to buy it fully though.
Liliaethliliaeth on May 1st, 2010 02:47 pm (UTC)
One of my main problems with the soul quest in s6 was just how ambiguous Joss left things, just to get the surprise ending in Grave. Up to a point where even now there's still people who don't believe that Spike went for his soul.

I'd much rather have it, if the writers had made it clearer what Spike was after, so we were able to root for him while he was doing it. And I'm saying that as someone who loves that Spike chose to go for his soul, exactly because it's so in character for him, as someone who stands up to destiny. Spike's always been a character who made his own choices, who made his own fate and getting the soul is part of that.

With someone like Spike, he's someone who bends, who changes and getting the soul was just one more choice Spike made because of that. But the show seemed to ignore that. They had Buffy saying all "he's changed because he has a soul" while what they should have been doing was have her and the others be awed/shocked/confused/angry, because he actually made a choice of his own free will, proving that he had that free will in the first place.
penny_lane_42 on May 1st, 2010 04:00 pm (UTC)
I'm still bitter about dropping the Spike&Dawn friendship.

Liliaeth: cookiesliliaeth on May 1st, 2010 04:13 pm (UTC)
this sooooooo much.
Video Deteriora Sequor: blendingexecutrix on May 2nd, 2010 05:18 am (UTC)
For Firefly: I would completely have missed the Blue Sun logos if the commentary to Serenity-the-Pilot hadn't said "Look! It's Blue Sun! It's incredibly important, they run everything!"--so I would have liked to see what THAT was all about.
pointedviewpointedview on May 2nd, 2010 03:37 pm (UTC)
1. Whiskey (Dollhouse)
2. Boyd's real, intended story (Dollhouse)
3. Book (Firefly)
4. Inara (Firefly)
5. Invisible Girl (Buffy)

As for Blue Sun, I assumed they were a megacorporation running the Hands of Blue guys as a secret/black ops research group, with their hands in many governmental pies from purchasing influence and buying a few senators. The unwitting population continues to buy their products.