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20 January 2012 @ 04:59 pm
Worst Plot Lines in Whedonverse  
We're going to be having a discussion on our podcast, Lets Talk Joss, about the worst plotlines in the Whedonverse. What plots made your go uhhhhhh in Buffy, Angel, Firefly, and Dollhouse?
what doesn't kill me better run: val: funnier with my foot up your asscarlyinrome on January 21st, 2012 01:02 am (UTC)

That whole Evil Cordy mess. WHY.

sl_podcast: freaksl_podcast on January 21st, 2012 01:07 am (UTC)
slaymesoftlyslaymesoftly on January 21st, 2012 01:32 am (UTC)
Lou: btvs + w + furysteles on January 21st, 2012 01:12 am (UTC)
I hated the whole cordy/connor/grown brainwashing baby.
tangwstyltangwstyl on January 21st, 2012 01:08 am (UTC)
The nerds.

The First Evil.

The idea that demons can't love without souls. (Is that considered a plot line?)

sl_podcastsl_podcast on January 21st, 2012 08:40 pm (UTC)
I don't know, the demons can't love without their souls really opened up a great discussion with Spike.
Lou: ros + md + what? half asleepsteles on January 21st, 2012 01:17 am (UTC)
Dawn. And that's all I have to say about that.
Willow/Kennedy, Nina the werewolf...hmmm typical my mind's gone blank.
iamfitz on January 21st, 2012 02:04 am (UTC)
The Initiative.

C'mon, a massive facility is built and operating under a university and no one knows about it? That's goofy even for a bad comic book.

And I agree that what they did to Cordelia on "Angel" is just unforgivable.
sl_podcast: Christmassl_podcast on January 21st, 2012 08:53 pm (UTC)
Even Joss would agree with you on the initative front I believe.. it was a great idea that was so horribly written.
Spiletta42: w/k otpspiletta42 on January 21st, 2012 04:07 am (UTC)
I didn't like the Evil Cordy thing either, it felt convoluted and her death sucked. (I didn't like any of the main character deaths on any of Joss's shows, really, but I never like character death in anything, so I'm not going to go so far as to call any of those bad plots.)

I loved Willow/Kennedy. I loved the Trio, especially Andrew. Dawn is one of my favorite characters. I was fine with the Initiative.

I thought the attempted rape scene in Seeing Red was unnecessary and problematic. Someone should have come up with a better catalyst for Spike's soul-seeking. They couldn't give him a moral dilemma with some actual meat on it, really? Of course, that issue has been beaten to death for years, so it might not make a very good podcast topic.

My best suggestion, I guess, is Illyria -- the character was great, but the claim that Fred's soul was destroyed was a special level of cruel. I think they could have not gone there. And yes, I realize they did it to avoid spending time trying to restore Fred, and they had to do that because they had to wrap the show unexpectedly early, but I still dislike the decision.
sl_podcast: jossdsl_podcast on January 21st, 2012 08:51 pm (UTC)
My comfort canon is they've been so wrong about souls before that they're wrong about it this time.
Spiletta42spiletta42 on January 21st, 2012 09:09 pm (UTC)
Oh, without a doubt they're wrong. A soul should be the most indestructible thing in the universe. *sigh* I should write fix-it fic, but I seem to not write any more, sadly.
Liliaethliliaeth on January 21st, 2012 05:14 am (UTC)
the way Willow's storyline was handled. One of many reasons I can't stand the character, is because they took her organic storyline of slowly getting corrupted by her need to control and railroaded it with the magic=drugs storyline. Also the way they killed Tara to give Willow an excuse to go evil, instead of having Tara be the one to bring her back from the edge, which to me would have been a stronger storyline.
sl_podcast: Chuck - Ramonessl_podcast on January 21st, 2012 08:48 pm (UTC)
Agreed, Willow going dark was on my list to bring up. Even though I have a love/hate relationship with Joss' killing off characters (I think it's effective), the ride up to that point was lame and heavy handed.
Liliaethliliaeth on January 21st, 2012 08:54 pm (UTC)
oh I agree that killing of a character can very effectively build up a plot, but, the problem with Tara's death, is twofold, the way she died was highly improbably and two, and more importantly, it was a cliché.

If they had to kill a character at that point to pull Willow over the edge, storywise, it would have been much stronger had they killed of Xander. Considering how little use they actually made of him in s7, and the way they pretty much replaced him with Andrew... If they'd killed Xander, and Tara brought Willow back from the edge, then you basically turn the dead lesbian cliché on its head and give those scenes a far deeper meaning. Since Willow would lose the brother of her heart, her best friend... She would have believably been able to blame Buffy for it, giving her a reason to fight Buffy and so on...

It would have also made the First in s7 far far more powerful, if he'd been able to use Xander's face. Nick Brendan does great evil, he could have actually had a storyline with some meat on it, and the show could have used it to explore just how important Xander was to the group...
RPowellrpowell on January 21st, 2012 06:53 am (UTC)
Evil Cordy and Illyria.
sueworld2003: Crazysueworld2003 on January 21st, 2012 11:26 am (UTC)
Well for me If you're including the comics, well then I'd have to say season 8. Totally bonkers and incredibly poorly plotted.
sl_podcast: beakersl_podcast on January 21st, 2012 08:49 pm (UTC)
I'm not, but agreed. Joss went to crazy with the idea he was in comic book world.
tbt93: angelcordyicontbt93 on January 21st, 2012 02:08 pm (UTC)
NAgle having sex with Nina.I mean he could have sex with Nina but not Cordy why????
ms_scarletibis: Liz Lemon has it allms_scarletibis on January 21st, 2012 02:53 pm (UTC)
*I think they were trying to bring in more male viewership? Or maybe the logic behind it hadn't occurred to them before?

*That's why we didn't get s6 in the first place in spite of the spike (pun intended) in ratings--we were the wrong demographic...
Becca: Cordy & Doyleyou_speak_lies on January 21st, 2012 06:26 pm (UTC)
Didn't he and Wesley have a whole conversation about how being with Nina wouldn't cause him to experience perfect happiness?
sl_podcast: Another post?sl_podcast on January 21st, 2012 08:44 pm (UTC)
I believe so. I appreciated the reminders that Angel isn't without his needs.. he's not some crazy hero eunuch.
tbt93tbt93 on January 22nd, 2012 01:12 pm (UTC)
I think but I still think that Angel and Cordy should have had at least one little sex scene together,But anyway what didn't you like about the show????
ms_scarletibis: Cordelia crossbowms_scarletibis on January 21st, 2012 02:51 pm (UTC)
I'd say Adam. S4 would've been so much better had Maggie been the villain, and not some patchwork demon.

And while I do hate what they did to my girl Cordy in s4, s4 also had some really kick ass moments with Faith and Angelus...S4 is like a beautiful car wreck. I somehow love it. Still, didn't think they'd kill the character/put her in a coma. Otoh, if they hadn't, there wouldn't have been Spike in s5 so...

I just think they could have/should have handled her character with more respect and dignity.

The First Evil in s7/potentials storyline.

Whatever the hell has happened in the comics...
Becca: Doyleyou_speak_lies on January 21st, 2012 06:24 pm (UTC)
I think the way Buffy emotionally distanced herself from her friends was the worst plotline, and caused most of the problems in seasons 6 and 7.
sl_podcast: geek  - Mr. Universesl_podcast on January 21st, 2012 08:42 pm (UTC)
I think that's where most of my favorite shows really get screwed over is when they separate the core friendships/relationships.. It never leads to a good place and yet every show I watch has to do it.
sl_podcast: spikesl_podcast on January 21st, 2012 08:46 pm (UTC)
Since no one has pointed out a Firefly (a friend says there are none, I disagree), I'm going to go with the whole Inara leaving the ship. After she's been so fiercely in love with the ship and with the crew I find it super hard to believe she'd leave. I thought it was dumb, especially if it was because of Nandi
pghbekka: ooh willowpghbekka on January 22nd, 2012 09:23 am (UTC)
Hands down, for me, the Willow magic=drugs storyline.

Edited at 2012-01-22 09:23 am (UTC)